Sidechaining Options

[fly*]

Okies...

I've been asked to do a post on sidechaining on another forum so I thought I would just put up the post here as well.....

Again, I'm not the guru on this and zooloo pretty much taught me all I know on the subject (so if you are lurking around pls feel free to comment )....

Basically the idea of sidechaining is to attenuate the volume (accentuate the gain level) of one sound once it is triggered by another sound....this is used all the time in radio and it is called ducking....basically what happens is when the music is playing all is dandy and once the DJ talks the level drops or ducks under his voice...when he stops, the music level goes back to normal....this is all handled by sidechaning compressors together....

Heres how you do it....

Firstly you are going to need a compressor that handles sidechaining....luckily for the Logic/ProTools users this is pretty much a standard feature, for us lesser mortals we need to scour the net...there are some available though to be honest I have no clue where to find them, try www.kvr-vst.com...

Anyways, basically you first put a key input on the channel you want to trigger the attenuation....so in this case it will be the kick, then you put the compressor on the channel you want attenuated, the bass or disco riff.....once you have this up it gets a little easier....firstly on the bass/disco riff channel you want to enable the key input on the compressor...this will normally be a button marked key....once this is applied the compressor is linked to the kick channel....

Loop the section with the kick and the bass playing...on the bass compressor, start pulling down your threshold level until it is hitting the kicks peak (depending on the compressor will depend on how you see this...some you will directly see the key input, others you will only see once the threshold level has been crossed)....if you have keyed the input right, the more you pull the threshold down past the key input level the more the bass is compressed at that point....so basically the kick will come in, and the bass will all but disappear but as soon as the kick is gone the bass screams back in with a vengeance.... 8) ala Call on me - Thomas Bangalter (or that thief Eric Prydz)

Now you can still customise how this ducking or breathing effect reacts to the key input (kick) by varying the amount of attack and release on the bass compressor...faster attack will obviously mean the bass comes in a lot quicker once the kick has gone and a faster or slower release will similarly affect the the tail of the bass....a slower attack with a faster release is normally desirable for that pumping effect but it does vary from track to track according the the key input and the sound being ducked....

Sidechaining is a wonderful way of getting the most out of your kick and bass in the track....basically what you are doing is giving all the power to one particular sound at that point and then shifting it across to another....why is this important ??? mainly cos low end on low end sound generally don't like mixing with each other and take up a lot of energy consequently stealing other energy from other sounds and squashing them....rather spread it out and get an even distribution and let them all play nice together...

Oh and you an do this with EQ as well but that's a whole new ball game....

Hope this helps and if I have got anything wrong please feel free to post...

Oh and there have been extensive discussion on MIO....

Heres some of the threads that may help you...

Some excellent sidechain info

Getting that sound - Call on Me

Sidechain compressor pumping effect...

[zooloo]

dats pretty much all good except that the title of the post is misleading.

you have basically explained how to set up a ducker... sidechaining is the method employed to achieve the ducking effect.

Sidechaining is an advanced signal processing technique that has other applications, not just ducking... If I can scramble together some moretime I'll post a few other examples...

[fly*]

Fire away...we are all learning here

[factorh]

@ Fly .......Excellent post.

I have heard of side chaining, but never fully bothered to understand it, or use it.

But this post was great, and now I see where it could come in quite handy.

I am primarily a trance producer, but have started delving into the funkier ,disco orientated side of things. When mastering I have picked up some excelent compression settings for this type of music. But I see that using side compresion as a ducker,will really get that bottom end pumping.

@ Zooloo.....any other info on the other aspects of compression will be greatly appreciated.

[Fried]

There is a great freebie available called SideChainComp available at
http://www.ismusic.ne.jp/slim_slow_slider/vst/

It can be configured for a stereo file too, unlike Waves C3 (although I never tried to set this up beyond checking the L->R function)

[fly*]

OK....now the million dollar question....

Ho w do you do this solely in Reason 2.5.....it can be done...I know this since its illustrated in a book I cant afford....now surely with the minds we have on this forum we should be able to come up with something....

I just wanna do this cos its a challenge....

[Gazar]

I actually did it on one of my tracks a while back using only Reason and Cubase SX. I did it by accident tho so Ill have to pick it apart an see how its happenin. Then Ill post what I find. What was the name of the book Fly*?

Laterz G

[fly*]

I actually did it on one of my tracks a while back using only Reason and Cubase SX

Yeah, the way I described in the 1st post is how i've been doing it with Cubase and Reason just using rewire....but i'm trying to figure out how to do it solely in Reason without having to rewire out....a conundrum and head scratcher...i'll get it

The books name is PowerTool for Reason (i think) its written by Peff at www.peff.com

[Fried]

Oh Kewl! I've just seen one of your links is a link to post I posted with links to the SideChainComp stuff... hee hee

[djstephan]

Greetings all on this site.
i have for quite a while been surfing this forum and you could best describe me as the ghost in the machine.Always observing but never reveiling myself.
Most will better know me as djstephan in the Cape Town dance scene.
i have been djing in Cape Town and all over South Africa for the last ten years, and have performed next to mostly all the Harddance + Trance internationals that have visited our shores.
On the production side i have been producing for just over 4 years and have just arrived in the UK 2day for a 2 year stay gearing up for a career in production.

Now enough said about me.
Since this is quite an interesting thread I thought to myself that i will help you guys out on this one, as it is not as plain as daylight, but since there is so many reason users out there, im sure that knowing this trick will be beneficial to all, so here goes.

To obtain sidechaing in reason which can be used creatively to basically dynamicaly control any cv input on any such reason device, first create a Scream Distortion unit.
Then route your key input [kick for this example] to the Scream's audio input.
At this stage you can deactivate all the distortion,eq,etc. settings for this device since you are not using it for a distorting effect but purely as a dynamics controler, unless u really want a distorting kick for this example

Now if you hit TAB and flip the reason rack around you will see a CV output on the back of The Scream labeled AUTO CV. This is basicaly an envelope follower, which means that this output represents the volume or envelope characteristics of any source that is routed to this device's input.

For the next step create a CV SPLITTER AND MERGER device.
Now route the AUTO CV on the Scream to SPLIT A or Split B, just as u wish.
At this stage you should have your key input connected to your Mixer either from splitting the source signal with an AUDIO SPLITTER AND MERGER and sending the original uneffected source signal to say mixer channel 1, or routing the outputs of the Scream to mixer channel 1[again u can bypass the Scream for this job at the top left corner of the device since you are just stealing the source signal's envelope setting].

Now logic dictates that you should have your bassline,derived from whichever source [Sampler or Synth], connected to mixer Channel 2.

Now flip the reason rack around again to expose the backpanel.
The back of the CV MERGER AND SPLITTER contains 4 split outputs either next to SPLIT INPUT A or B where you have connected the AUTO CV output.

Now u will see that on the back of your mixer there is CV Level inputs for all channels. Depending on which SPLIT INPUT you have connected the AUTO CV signal to, take that INV output and connect it to Mixer Channel 2's CV Level input.
What this actually means is that you have inverted the kick's envelope setting. Accordingly this inverted negative setting now acts as a volume slider that antenuates the bassline's or Mixer Channel 2's volume.

The amount with whitch the bassline is reduced in level is now controled with the
trimpot knob and/or the source signals envelope settings on the source device.

And thats it. but for one moment think of all the other possibilities, e.g. using velocity on the source signal to detune a sound [UN 16],more or less, the harder or softer you play.

Mad respect to reason's flexible routing options.

Anyways, good luck with this venture and have fun